Hellhammer
Apr 8, 09:01 AM
The trouble is .. I find the TDP numbers for Sandy Bridge very misleading. For example the previous i7 2.66Ghz dual core had a TDP of 35W and the current i7 2.2Ghz quad core has a TDP of 45W. Theoretically, it should only use 10W more when doing CPU intensive task, but according to anandtech who measured the task, the i7 Sandy Bridge Quad core was using almost 40W more when running cinebench.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4205/the-macbook-pro-review-13-and-15-inch-2011-brings-sandy-bridge/14
It just doesn't make any sense. Going by those figures, if the i7 dual core was 35W, the i7 Sandy Bridge quad core would be around 70W.
Not sure how this relates to potential MacBook Air Sandy Bridge processors, but keep in mind.. there must be a reason why Samsung went for the ULV processor in their 13" laptop instead of the LV one.
CPU isn't the only thing that changed. AMD 6750M (~30W) has higher TDP than NVidia GT 330M (~23W). I had to put ~ because their TDPs are not officially stated by AMD or NVidia so it's just based on previous GPUs and their TDPs. The point is that AMD 6750M has higher TDP.
There is also another thing. TDP is not the maximum power draw. Maximum power dissipation is usually 20-30% more than the actual TDP. While MPD is rarely achieved as it requires maximum voltage and temperature, it can (nearly) be achieved with heavy benchmarking applications.
For example, the combined TDP from quad core SB and AMD 6750M is 75W. If we use 20% extra as the MPD, that is 90W, just from the CPU and GPU! Of course those parts are not using 90W in that test because things like screen, HD, RAM etc need power too. As the MPD is usually in percents, it can explain why the difference is so big in watts.
40W sounds a bit too much to explain with MPD though. IIRC the GT 330M is underclocked but I'm not 100% sure. You have a valid point that the SBs may be using more power than their predecessors. To make this more accurate, we should compare them with C2Ds though ;)
I guess we will have to wait and see, but an ULV in 13" would be more than a disappointment.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4205/the-macbook-pro-review-13-and-15-inch-2011-brings-sandy-bridge/14
It just doesn't make any sense. Going by those figures, if the i7 dual core was 35W, the i7 Sandy Bridge quad core would be around 70W.
Not sure how this relates to potential MacBook Air Sandy Bridge processors, but keep in mind.. there must be a reason why Samsung went for the ULV processor in their 13" laptop instead of the LV one.
CPU isn't the only thing that changed. AMD 6750M (~30W) has higher TDP than NVidia GT 330M (~23W). I had to put ~ because their TDPs are not officially stated by AMD or NVidia so it's just based on previous GPUs and their TDPs. The point is that AMD 6750M has higher TDP.
There is also another thing. TDP is not the maximum power draw. Maximum power dissipation is usually 20-30% more than the actual TDP. While MPD is rarely achieved as it requires maximum voltage and temperature, it can (nearly) be achieved with heavy benchmarking applications.
For example, the combined TDP from quad core SB and AMD 6750M is 75W. If we use 20% extra as the MPD, that is 90W, just from the CPU and GPU! Of course those parts are not using 90W in that test because things like screen, HD, RAM etc need power too. As the MPD is usually in percents, it can explain why the difference is so big in watts.
40W sounds a bit too much to explain with MPD though. IIRC the GT 330M is underclocked but I'm not 100% sure. You have a valid point that the SBs may be using more power than their predecessors. To make this more accurate, we should compare them with C2Ds though ;)
I guess we will have to wait and see, but an ULV in 13" would be more than a disappointment.
DStaal
Sep 13, 11:12 AM
Sun has released this as Open Source. so it will get ported around to other OSes. I hear Sun's Dtrace is already in Leopard
Great. Um... What's their patent licensing scheme on this? (Since they proudly announce they've patented parts of it...)
Great. Um... What's their patent licensing scheme on this? (Since they proudly announce they've patented parts of it...)
ergle2
Sep 13, 07:19 PM
Obviously, since Intel is no longer creating new processors with HT.
By the way, previous poster, HT does not double the number of cores. Just the number of virtual cores. A Pentium 4 system with HT will run slower than a dual Pentium 4 system (with HT disabled) at the same clock speed.
Actually, many tasks were faster.
HyperThreading was thrown in to mask other deficiencies in the NetBurst arch by exploiting resources that were otherwise wasted.
There were a few cases where HT ran slower when HT first debuted, but with OS scheduler tweaks and BIOS updates (microcode changes, likely), HT was a net win in most cases.
Core 2 doesn't have the same design issues - mostly down to that excessively long pipeline - that Prescott had, and hence HT makes no sense.
The problem, however, lay with Netburst as a whole, rather than HT -- which offered a minor improvement in performance - a band-aid if you will.
By the way, previous poster, HT does not double the number of cores. Just the number of virtual cores. A Pentium 4 system with HT will run slower than a dual Pentium 4 system (with HT disabled) at the same clock speed.
Actually, many tasks were faster.
HyperThreading was thrown in to mask other deficiencies in the NetBurst arch by exploiting resources that were otherwise wasted.
There were a few cases where HT ran slower when HT first debuted, but with OS scheduler tweaks and BIOS updates (microcode changes, likely), HT was a net win in most cases.
Core 2 doesn't have the same design issues - mostly down to that excessively long pipeline - that Prescott had, and hence HT makes no sense.
The problem, however, lay with Netburst as a whole, rather than HT -- which offered a minor improvement in performance - a band-aid if you will.
Bilbo63
Apr 19, 02:43 PM
I'm not saying that Apple stole IP from Xerox, but what I am is that its quite disappointing to see Apple fanboys trying to distort the past into making it seem as though Apple created the first GUI, when that is CLEARLY not the case. The GUI had its roots in Xerox PARC. That, is a FACT.
Many of "Apple fanboys" understand that the key GUI concepts were done at Xerox and give Xerox full credit for some incredible work. It is really too bad that they (Xerox brass) didn't understand what it was that their engineers were developing.
Fortunately for Apple they "got it" and gave those same engineers the means to run with the GUI concept. Since that time, Apple has done a tremendous work expanding on those basic ideas and much of that work has been repeatedly copied.
I give Xerox full credit, their early work was nothing short of a game-changer for the entire industry.
edit... spelling. Ugh!
Many of "Apple fanboys" understand that the key GUI concepts were done at Xerox and give Xerox full credit for some incredible work. It is really too bad that they (Xerox brass) didn't understand what it was that their engineers were developing.
Fortunately for Apple they "got it" and gave those same engineers the means to run with the GUI concept. Since that time, Apple has done a tremendous work expanding on those basic ideas and much of that work has been repeatedly copied.
I give Xerox full credit, their early work was nothing short of a game-changer for the entire industry.
edit... spelling. Ugh!
ZoomZoomZoom
Sep 19, 12:06 PM
Umm... No... your not throwing down $2500+ for a "top-of-the-line laptop". Your throwing down $2500+ for a Macbook Pro. Seriously... quit comparing a PC laptop merely because it has a "better" processor. It's still a Winblows machine.
That being said... fine... go buy a PC laptop. Have fun with all the ******** that comes with that.
I'm finding it hilarious that you can put yourself into Stevie's reality distortion field even after the Intel switch. Maybe while Apple had PPC, you could have said that. But now that direct hardware comparisons can be made, don't you think it's stupid that sub-$1000 PC notebooks have better processors than the best Apple has to offer?
And yes, the MBP is a top-of-the-line laptop. Apart from 2'' thick behemoths, it was one of the fastest portables around, and it was priced accordingly. Now it's still priced as such, but times are moving, technology is advancing, and if you compare pound for pound, the MBP is behind.
That being said... fine... go buy a PC laptop. Have fun with all the ******** that comes with that.
I'm finding it hilarious that you can put yourself into Stevie's reality distortion field even after the Intel switch. Maybe while Apple had PPC, you could have said that. But now that direct hardware comparisons can be made, don't you think it's stupid that sub-$1000 PC notebooks have better processors than the best Apple has to offer?
And yes, the MBP is a top-of-the-line laptop. Apart from 2'' thick behemoths, it was one of the fastest portables around, and it was priced accordingly. Now it's still priced as such, but times are moving, technology is advancing, and if you compare pound for pound, the MBP is behind.
SuperCachetes
Feb 28, 08:45 PM
No because heterosexuality is the default way the brain works
...And the Oscar for "Greatest Generalization In An Online Forum" goes to...
You.
:rolleyes:
...And the Oscar for "Greatest Generalization In An Online Forum" goes to...
You.
:rolleyes:
dukebound85
Dec 7, 05:07 PM
would those that have played this game reccomend getting it? or are there too many cons (standard cars, multiple versions of one car, bad AI in racing, bad physics in damage esp with standard, etc) that would lead to buyers remorse?
Keep in mind, I have played quite abit of Forza, but now have a PS3 and want agood racing sim but just keep hearing bad things about this game (largely being an incomplete game)
Keep in mind, I have played quite abit of Forza, but now have a PS3 and want agood racing sim but just keep hearing bad things about this game (largely being an incomplete game)
Kebabselector
Mar 22, 12:53 PM
Competition is great, but they market the playbook as a Professional Tablet - which is fine, but if it's a Professional tablet why have so many pictures of it running games?
digitalbiker
Aug 25, 09:03 PM
Ask me, phone support has been pretty lousy for years (at least since 1996 or whenever they instituted the stupid 90-day support rule that doesn't mirror the 1 year warranty.)
After reading through this thread, doesn't it concern everyone that so many of us have dealt with customer support over the past couple years.
What ever happened to quality control? I am not sure I have ever bought one Apple product since 1996 that I didn't end up calling Apple Customer support because something was wrong.
I remember buying a lot of computers, Apple II's, original macs, Commodore 64's, Amigas, Dells, etc. that never once required a phone call. Now everything I buy from Apple breaks or needs a repair prior to it's warranty running out. I have also had two machines and an ipod go completely bad after the warranty expired.
After reading through this thread, doesn't it concern everyone that so many of us have dealt with customer support over the past couple years.
What ever happened to quality control? I am not sure I have ever bought one Apple product since 1996 that I didn't end up calling Apple Customer support because something was wrong.
I remember buying a lot of computers, Apple II's, original macs, Commodore 64's, Amigas, Dells, etc. that never once required a phone call. Now everything I buy from Apple breaks or needs a repair prior to it's warranty running out. I have also had two machines and an ipod go completely bad after the warranty expired.
Rt&Dzine
Apr 28, 06:33 PM
That is a good point... I was "lumped" in as a liberal and I don't consider myself one. I am more moderate. Live and let live kind of guy...
I'm a mixture. Liberal, moderate, and conservative.
I'm a mixture. Liberal, moderate, and conservative.
leekohler
Apr 27, 02:49 PM
Are you calling me a liar? I literally went to WhiteHouse.gov, opened the file in Illustrator, and moved the text around myself. :rolleyes:
Some things never change. Laughably bias.
Oh- and you're always objective. You are arguably one of the most abrasive and biased people here, and proud of it.
BTW- just opened the same file- no layers. So you tell me what I'm missing here.
Some things never change. Laughably bias.
Oh- and you're always objective. You are arguably one of the most abrasive and biased people here, and proud of it.
BTW- just opened the same file- no layers. So you tell me what I'm missing here.
hcho3
Apr 19, 08:15 PM
Samsung is the worst company with ideas. They just copied off apple on everything they make, period.
Yes, their Nexus S phones have almost as same packaging as iPhone 3GS or iPhone 4 packaging.
Yes, their icons are so similar.
Yes, their UI is very identical to Apple's iOS.
Their new Samsung 9 series laptop has drop ports and original macbook air had this as well.
Samsung just copies apple. Good to see apple is suing them. Love competitions, but apple spent money on investing, marketing and entering the market with the new design. Samsung? No. They just copied.
They deserve to lose and they will lose in this trial.
Yes, their Nexus S phones have almost as same packaging as iPhone 3GS or iPhone 4 packaging.
Yes, their icons are so similar.
Yes, their UI is very identical to Apple's iOS.
Their new Samsung 9 series laptop has drop ports and original macbook air had this as well.
Samsung just copies apple. Good to see apple is suing them. Love competitions, but apple spent money on investing, marketing and entering the market with the new design. Samsung? No. They just copied.
They deserve to lose and they will lose in this trial.
ugp
Jun 10, 12:46 PM
I don't think any Radio Shack sales people know what a transistor is.
You got questions? We have cell phones.
Why would they? Not many people buy them anymore.
In the 7 years I worked at RadioShack we didn't get much business for parts and when we did it was for the stuff we didn't carry. I think Fuses are the only things we sold often from those parts drawers. And it was always the same people coming in for parts anyways.
You got questions? We have cell phones.
Why would they? Not many people buy them anymore.
In the 7 years I worked at RadioShack we didn't get much business for parts and when we did it was for the stuff we didn't carry. I think Fuses are the only things we sold often from those parts drawers. And it was always the same people coming in for parts anyways.
GFLPraxis
Jul 14, 07:23 PM
2003: "In 12 months, we'll be at 3GHz".
Mid 2006: "I want to talk about 2.66GHz" although 4 cores running at 2.66GHz (Yum! :D ).
Who cares about GHz? In the benchmarks I'm seeing a 2.66 GHz Core 2 Duo is easily outperforming a 3.8 GHz Pentium 4.
Mid 2006: "I want to talk about 2.66GHz" although 4 cores running at 2.66GHz (Yum! :D ).
Who cares about GHz? In the benchmarks I'm seeing a 2.66 GHz Core 2 Duo is easily outperforming a 3.8 GHz Pentium 4.
Tommyg117
Aug 11, 10:44 AM
My phone plan runs out next month, hopefully it comes out soon.
ezekielrage_99
Sep 13, 08:14 AM
Do you really need that amount of power? I'm guessing yes ;)
I'd love to see the performance on the Clovertown Mac Pro.
I'd love to see the performance on the Clovertown Mac Pro.
CaptMurdock
Mar 18, 12:21 AM
I expect better from both of you.
Boy, are you in for a disappointment. :rolleyes:
Boy, are you in for a disappointment. :rolleyes:
Mattie Num Nums
Apr 6, 11:12 AM
I still don't think this means new MacBook Airs in June. Can anyone really see Apple releasing new hardware before Lion is released?
I can they have before. Drop in OS kits.
I can they have before. Drop in OS kits.
X2468
Mar 31, 07:07 PM
That, right there, is one of the reasons why the Apple community is widely mocked. You should be ashamed of yourself. A complete lack of understanding on the most basic principles of technology.
Precisely, well said :)
Precisely, well said :)
mdntcallr
Sep 13, 10:30 AM
this is pretty neat news.
means people like me can buy a mac pro tower with the 2.0 ghz core. good video card.
then upgrade later on when i have more money. that and it will be powerful as hell.
super nice!
means people like me can buy a mac pro tower with the 2.0 ghz core. good video card.
then upgrade later on when i have more money. that and it will be powerful as hell.
super nice!
snouter
Apr 6, 11:07 AM
My 17" has backlit keys and I like them. Is that so wrong?
Dan==
Jul 27, 02:29 PM
While I like your thinking, your mock-up is wrong. If Apple are going to release a mid-Tower it has to appeal to both gamers and those looking for a headless iMac. They would really have to bring out about three main models, one which was basically an upgradable iMac spec for a couple to few hundred bucks less than the real deal and two higher spec conroes, (short of Mac Pro though). From what I can see, yours looks too small to easily customise, which would appeal to gamers.
Single optical, single HD (2nd slot free), assume better specs will mainly lie with graphics and ram.
I'm not much of a gamer, so take this with a healthy grain of salt...
Gamers seem to like to do a few things:
Single optical, single HD (2nd slot free), assume better specs will mainly lie with graphics and ram.
I'm not much of a gamer, so take this with a healthy grain of salt...
Gamers seem to like to do a few things:
macgeek2005
Aug 19, 09:43 PM
While it is true I have no life, it is not true I have fully decided to skip buying a Mac Pro. These discussions have lead me to a place of indecision about it rather than what I previously thought, which was to skip it. I never intended to talk anyone out of buying one if they want one. And I never intended to talk bad dirt against it. My apologies to anyone who thought I did. :(
My heartly congratulations to all who have taken the Mac Pro plunge already.
I am also waiting to see what the full scope of Core 2 offerings will be as I want a 17" Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro more first.
As far as the comment that Toast and Handbrake can use all four cores goes, Toast definitely does in the Mac Pro and if you add a significant action to the Quad G5, it will negatively impact the 2-3 core performance of Handbrake as well as Toast. That is what I meant. If it wasn't clear before now, I apologize for the imcomplete explanation of my meaning.
I feel misunderstood by some of you. No harm intended. Not anti-Mac Pro at all. Not trying to ratinoalize Quad G5 as somehow better - no way. Not trying to negatively impact Mac Pro sales. I'm totally Pro Mac Pro. Regret the misunderstanding. Wish I hadn't hurt some people's feelings. :o
That's okay. No worries. I just get a little defensive when I spend $5000 on a new system, and then see you posting about how it'll be better with Clovertown. But that's my problem I guess. :rolleyes:
Anyway, it's all cool.
My heartly congratulations to all who have taken the Mac Pro plunge already.
I am also waiting to see what the full scope of Core 2 offerings will be as I want a 17" Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro more first.
As far as the comment that Toast and Handbrake can use all four cores goes, Toast definitely does in the Mac Pro and if you add a significant action to the Quad G5, it will negatively impact the 2-3 core performance of Handbrake as well as Toast. That is what I meant. If it wasn't clear before now, I apologize for the imcomplete explanation of my meaning.
I feel misunderstood by some of you. No harm intended. Not anti-Mac Pro at all. Not trying to ratinoalize Quad G5 as somehow better - no way. Not trying to negatively impact Mac Pro sales. I'm totally Pro Mac Pro. Regret the misunderstanding. Wish I hadn't hurt some people's feelings. :o
That's okay. No worries. I just get a little defensive when I spend $5000 on a new system, and then see you posting about how it'll be better with Clovertown. But that's my problem I guess. :rolleyes:
Anyway, it's all cool.
hyperpasta
Aug 5, 04:02 PM
There is no way in the world Apple will be putting iSights in the Cinema Displays.
Well iSight or no, there needs to be an update anyway. The Mac Pro will have Front Row, and how will you control it by remote if you're meant to keep it under your desk? The new Cinema Displays need an IR "extender".
Besides, I still think Apple WOULD love to include an iSight in their displays.
Well iSight or no, there needs to be an update anyway. The Mac Pro will have Front Row, and how will you control it by remote if you're meant to keep it under your desk? The new Cinema Displays need an IR "extender".
Besides, I still think Apple WOULD love to include an iSight in their displays.
